Soy protein isolates

topic posted Wed, June 20, 2007 - 4:57 PM by 
Share/Save/Bookmark
Okay here it is. I love the stuff and admit that I know little than mom used to make these shakes for us (only with cow's milk instead of soy) and Dr. Sears of "The Zone" said SPI was a great source of protein. I thought they were 100% peachy until I looked it up so I'd be able to post my source. I found this:

"Our Call Center at Zone Labs has been getting a lot of calls lately about the health benefits of soy, especially concerning isoflavones. Dr. Sears says that an adult can consume up to 50 mg of isoflavones per day. The only time that Dr. Sears would ever recommend higher levels is for a female going through menopause. These individuals can take up to 125 mg of isoflavones, but only if that person is taking 5 grams of EPA and DHA per day. Levels for children should be much less, about 10 mg per day because of the potential of binding to thyroid receptors.

Here are some of the questions about soy and isoflavones that Dr. Sears has answered over the years on Drsears.com.

Soy and isoflavones

Q: I am a little confused about soy and isoflavones. I know that in your book (“The Soy Zone”) you say that if you stick with manufactured meat products made from soy, you are OK. I bought a soy milk maker, and it works great. I make soy milk all the time and have even made tofu from the soy milk. Now, I am reading articles about male brain degeneration, breast cancer, etc., when too many isoflavones are consumed. Should I ditch my soy milk maker and just stick to Morningstar Farm products for my soy source.

A: In “The Soy Zone,” I stated that at least one-third of your soy protein intake should come from imitation soy meat products that are devoid of isoflavones to prevent the over-consumption of these compounds. Consuming soy milk is not going to be a problem, if you follow this guideline. I feel that the consumption of about 50 mg. of isoflavones per day is a good upper level for an adult. Remember, that is 10 times more than the current average American intake and approximately the same amount as the Japanese consume.

Soy meat substitutes and soy protein isolates

Q: Questions concerning soy meat substitutes and soy protein isolates: 1. Has processing minimized the effect of phytates (substances that hinder mineral absorption) found in large quantities in soybeans? 2. To what degree has processing removed the enzyme inhibitors, such as trypsin, found in soybeans? I have read that the trypsin inhibitor content of soy protein isolate can vary as much as fivefold. 3. What about haemagglutinin, a substance found in soybeans that causes red blood cells to clump together? Has processing removed it? 4. While phytoestrogens may reduce menopausal symptoms, their effects on infants may not be desirable. It seems to me that adolescent females fed significant amounts of soy products, including infant formulas, containing phytoestrogens would reach puberty much sooner than normal. If so, is it wise for a girl to reach sexual maturity before her body and mental state is ready for childbirth? Would her fertility be impaired?

A: Significant processing of soy protein generates either soy protein concentrates or soy protein isolates. Most soy imitation meat products use soy protein concentrates as their primary source of protein. With either type of processed soy protein, the phytates that can bind minerals (especially zinc) are removed. Likewise, the protease inhibitors and haemagglutinins are deactivated by the heat treatment that is part of these more advanced processing technologies. The primary difference between the two types of soy protein is that the phytoestrogens have been completely removed from the soy protein concentrates by alcohol extraction, whereas about one-half of the original phytoestrogens remain in the soy protein isolates, which are water extracted. This is why I recommend at least one-third of your soy protein intake be in the form of soy imitation meat products, which are composed of phytoestrogen-free soy protein concentrates so that the daily phytoestrogen intake doesn’t exceed 50 mg per day. If the intake of any phytoestrogens is a concern, then make all of your protein choices coming from soy imitation meat products since these are the ones that young children are most likely to eat anyway.

Soy isoflavone overdose

Q: For well over a year I have been consuming very large amounts of soy isoflavones but am now cutting down to 50 mg. per day. I did become mildly hypothyroid, which was a shock, because I have always been so health conscious. The doctor put me on low-dose Armour thyroid, which has brought my TSH back to normal. Now that I know what caused the hypothyroidism, I am hoping to once again normalize it and discontinue the medication after another TSH test to determine if it is indeed back to normal. Is soy isoflavone induced hypothyroidism reversible, or have I done permanent damage to my thyroid? Should I stop all soy isoflavones until it normalizes, or is dropping to 50 mg per a day as I am currently doing OK?

A: The damage is not permanent since the isoflavones are just crowding out the thyroid hormone from its receptor site. I think dropping to 50 mg. per day would be sufficient to rectify the problem. You can get the hormonal benefits of soy protein without over-consuming isoflavones by consuming more soy imitation meat products since they are produced from soy protein concentrates that do not have any isoflavones.

Lignans and isoflavones

Q: Given the association between isoflavones and dementia in the Hawaii study and the similarity of the actions of lignans and isoflavones that I have read about on drsears.com, would you recommend that vegans who consume a lot of soy products, including some tofu, take flax seed oil rather than eating flax seeds?

A: Because of the potential of excess isoflavone consumption on male brain chemistry and the potential induction of hypothyroidism in both sexes, I recommend that at least one-third of the daily intake of your soy protein be in the form of soy meat substitutes which are composed of soy protein concentrates that have had all isoflavones extracted. Flax seeds in moderation remain a good condiment to add to any meal, but I suggest using fish or algae oil instead of flaxseed oil to provide a better source of long-chain omega-3 fatty acids."
www.zoneliving.com/ZoneLivi...-soy.aspx

So, am I correct in thinking this means I can have my soy shakes, soy meat substitutes (which I love), and add algae oil and be okay? (BTW, what in the hell is algae oil?)
posted by:
  • Re: Soy protein isolates

    Wed, June 20, 2007 - 5:57 PM
    Hi Maria...

    Well. let's assume that it's cool with everyone that we discuss this topic. If not, we can delete the thread. ;O)

    Speaking from experience here, there IS a huge possibility that excess soy can produce problems with your thyroid, as I began to notice some changes so I intensely studied the topic and have come to the following conclusions:

    1. I'm not a HUGE fan of soy anymore, specifically processed soy (soy milk, soy cheese, tofu, soy meats, etc.). It's important that you really see that word "excess" because I'm not talking about once in a while stuff here. This applies to you if you have (for example) soy milk with breakfast along with some soy sausages or bacon, a sandwich in the afternoon with soy meats and soy cheeses, a soy protein smoothie, and a dinner containing tofu.

    Many vegans seem to be of the opinion that these soy products, which are created with highly processed ingredients, can be just "switched out" for the milks, cheeses, meats, etc. that we used to eat. This isn't true, in my humble opinion.

    2. All the guesswork disappears if you try as hard as you can to simply eat whole foods. Tempeh is soy, but it's less processed and fermented, which is good for you. But once again, too much can bring on some challenges.

    3. If you're going to eat soy, it MUST be organic. Period. Most soybeans grown in the U.S. are grown for cattle feed, which means it's not organic which means it most likely contains GMO (genetically modified organisms).

    3. Switch from soymilk to oat/rice/almond milk.

    4. Cut out the soy cheese and make your own non-soy cheese from scratch (VERY EASY TO DO!! -- especially cheese sauces) -- I recommend Joanne Stepaniak's The Uncheese Cookbook or the Ultimate Uncheese Cookbook

    5. Discontinue your efforts to get your protein from processed soy products and switch to veggies (which have lots of protein -- it's what gives them their structure!) and BEANS. Beans are one of the best whole-food sources of protein for a vegan. You should have them every single solitary day. (If you need help with making beans from scratch, visit my Beans Page at: www.vegancoach.com/how-to-c...eans.html )

    For more about soy and the effects on the thyroid, go here: www.worldshealthiestfoods.com/gen....php

    Excerpt
    "The link between isoflavones and decreased thyroid function is, in fact, one of the few areas in which flavonoid intake has called into question as problematic. Isoflavones like genistein appear to reduce thyroid hormone output by blocking activity of an enzyme called thyroid peroxidase. This enzyme is responsible for adding iodine onto the thyroid hormones. (Thyroid hormones must typically have three or four iodine atoms added on to their structure in order to function properly.)

    Hope this helps?
    • Re: Soy protein isolates

      Wed, June 20, 2007 - 7:58 PM
      Well, I don't like soy cheese or tofu. So I'm safe there. As for the veggies, I'm just being lazy. I cook several veggies for the dogs for every meal. I want as little fuss about my meals as possible.

      Has anyone heard of algae oil?
      • Re: Soy protein isolates

        Wed, June 20, 2007 - 8:15 PM
        Probably not the best tribe for this. This tribe seems like it should be more for recipes.

        Its good to use a variety of protein sources. Its good to use a variety of vegan protein mixes as well. Mix and match hemp, soy, rice, and other sources. Dont rely just on one, or you will create an imbalance of one kind of another.
        • Re: Soy protein isolates

          Thu, June 21, 2007 - 1:13 AM
          "Probably not the best tribe for this. This tribe seems like it should be more for recipes. "

          Well, the mastead says: This is a community for Vegan people looking to share recipes and tips!

          This is not a recipe, but I'm looking for tips and info on ingredients. So, if you don't like the topic, you can just ignore the thread. Thanks.
          • Re: Soy protein isolates

            Thu, June 21, 2007 - 4:01 AM
            if its protein your after, then keep to nuts! i use a lot of almonds (alkaline forming, usefull in regenerative diets) and others... walnut/hazelnut can you get acorn flour? good substitute! anyway i eat a lot of them to keep a balance, especially with sprouted beans like aduki and mung.

            if you eat them alone, say in a warm salad and follow with greens/ salad. then they help with breakdown and uptake of proteins. keep the carbs out at this point. the carbs can come in another meal in the day, they only compete during digestion if mixed in with proteins... as they are broken down first into sugars and discourage the more complicated breakdown of proteins.

            but anyways sprouting is very simple, i set a whole bowl going on monday and lasts a week once sprouted and kept in fridge.

            have soya as well, just keep an eye on levels and excess...

            ps this is on topic as far as i can tell!
            • Re: Soy protein isolates

              Thu, June 21, 2007 - 9:01 AM
              I've always liked almonds. That addtion would be easy. I live in Los Angeles, so I can probably get anything. Funny, I've always liked bean sprouts, but the kind you buy that are just called "bean sprount" are soy beans, right? I had never heard that about the carbs competing. Really? It makes sense though, as they are easier. Do you eat your carbs earlier or later in the day?
              • Re: Soy protein isolates

                Thu, June 21, 2007 - 1:12 PM
                I do happen to be a trained nutritionist with a background in biochemistry and human physiology, and am going into Chinese Medicine.

                If you are not to proud to take some advice, I could break it all down for you entirely. My background in nutrition and dietary therapy is extensive.
                • Re: Soy protein isolates

                  Thu, June 21, 2007 - 4:17 PM
                  Sentience, I'm too proud for a lot of things, advice isn't one of them.

                  I've always been pretty laissez-faire about my diet. That's why I was so thrilled with the protein shakes. No muss, no fuss. Then Sassy had to chime in with the thyroid angle and when I went back to my source, they discussed it there too.

                  I've enjoyed the additonal protein, so I'd like to keep that going, but hypothyroidism is something I could do very well without.
                • Re: Soy protein isolates

                  Thu, June 21, 2007 - 4:37 PM
                  Sentience...

                  This topic of vegan nutrition fascinates me as I've been studying it for years.

                  I have zero desire to hear how I need eggs, meat or dairy in my diet.

                  I would, however, like to hear what you have to say about the basic nutritional needs of a human (protein, carbs, fats, etc.).

                  Or what you have to say about "vegan nutrition". Since we're in a vegan tribe, I'm assuming you'd stick to the topic of vegan nutrition anyway?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Soy protein isolates

                    Thu, June 21, 2007 - 6:20 PM
                    "I'm assuming you'd stick to the topic of vegan nutrition anyway? "

                    I would certainly hope so. If it's not vegan, I don't need it.
                    • Re: Soy protein isolates

                      Thu, June 21, 2007 - 9:58 PM
                      I am a Vegan btw.
                      Just because I criticized the way people communicated their views does not mean I am against veganism. I consult people on how to make their vegan diets work and balance themselves.

                      Soy protein isolate isnt bad. Whole soy beans, even cured are not an ideal food to be eaten every day as a main staple. That could cause health problems. Soy protein isolate reduces some of the elements that are not ideal for health. However, to be nutritionally balanced you should take it along with lecithin granules that also come from soy. Its cheap if you get it bulk instead of capsules. Soy prodcts ideally should either come in isolate form or be fermented. Fermentation removes some of the properties that may negatively affect health in large quantities. Tofu and tempe are good choices. Soy protein isolate is preferable to soy protein concentrate. However, you will want the lecithin to balance the food nutritionally.

                      Soy is very "yin" and cool. Soymilk is even "colder" especially if it is sweetened. Too much cold damp foods can negatively affect digestion, and lead to a host of health problems. You will want to use warming spices, and warming foods like short grain brown rice to stir the digestive and metabolic fires when you eat soy products. Ginger, Cayenne, peppers, horseradish, and others are good examples.


                      If I were to plan a diet for you, I would do a whole diagnostic test, read your pulse, looks at your eyes and tongue, and evaluate your routine diet. I cant say for certain from what little I know how much soy would be ideal for your diet.

                      As for protein shakes, I feel that hemp protein is superior. Like soy is contains all the essential amino acids, but in a preferable ratio. It also has a naturally superior balance of essential fatty acids.

                      Soy protein can be good if its balanced with rice protein. Some formulas have them pre-blended. Otherwise, you might be able to blend them yourself if you can obtain soy protein in bulk for cheap.

                      You might consider mixing equal parts of Soy, hemp, and rice protien, and adding chorella which is an algrea which is also high in protien. Mix it up yourself if you can find it in bulk since it will be cheaper.
                      Also, if you can find RAW almonds, soak them overnight in pure water and blend them up into your shakes with other fruit. Eat with complete protein sprouted grain bread or toast for complete nutrition.
                      • Re: Soy protein isolates

                        Fri, June 22, 2007 - 12:29 AM
                        in answer, i tend to have the protein rich meals at lunch and carb rich towards eve. to be honest i eat three main meals a day, 11am, 1-2pm and 6pm. do sprout your own though they are much better, fresher and more rewarding that buying expensive pre-sprouted packets... some of which can be full of nasty bacterial slime... you know what i mean?

                        as to chinese nutritional approach! fantastic... i love paul pritchards book "healing with wholefoods" where there are some very usefull plans and advise! i use this a s my basic guide. to be honest we all could do with better nutritional information... i often feel i need to study this more and would love to find a vegan nutritionalist! know any in london? im actually wanting to get a few people together on this front.
                      • Re: Soy protein isolates

                        Fri, June 22, 2007 - 10:31 AM
                        Hi Sentience...

                        Thanks so very much for taking the time to share this info with us. I love what you've said, and I agree wholeheartedly.

                        I would like you to explain a couple things to my feeble brain...all questions asked with the utmost respect:



                        "Soy protein isolate isn't bad."

                        But would you say it's good?



                        "Soy protein isolate reduces some of the elements that are not ideal for health. However, to be nutritionally balanced you should take it along with lecithin granules that also come from soy."

                        Wouldn't it be easiest (and healthiest) to just skip the isolates?





                        "Whole soy beans, even cured are not an ideal food to be eaten every day as a main staple. That could cause health problems."

                        This is where I have some confusion. I have always believed eating "whole foods" is always preferable over processed. But when it comes to soy beans, we should opt for the processed (like the isolates) instead of the whole soy bean? Wouldn't it be better to just SKIP the soy beans AND the processed soy and just focus on other means of protein, such as black beans, kidney beans, pinto beans, etc., grains and veggies?





                        "Fermentation removes some of the properties that may negatively affect health in large quantities. Tofu and tempe are good choices."
                        I agree tempeh is a good choice since it's fermented. But tofu isn't fermented, it's simply a processed soy, so can you please tell me why you've included it?




                        Thanks, Sentience.
                        • Re: Soy protein isolates

                          Fri, June 22, 2007 - 1:35 PM
                          "This is where I have some confusion. I have always believed eating "whole foods" is always preferable over processed. But when it comes to soy beans, we should opt for the processed (like the isolates) instead of the whole soy bean? Wouldn't it be better to just SKIP the soy beans AND the processed soy and just focus on other means of protein, such as black beans, kidney beans, pinto beans, etc., grains and veggies? "

                          I prefer to avoid highly processed foods, including the isolates. However, the isolate form is still preferable to the concentrate form. There are toxic elements in soy that should not be eaten daily in quantity. However, with minimal natural forms of processing as simple as water curing and culturing/fermenting as is the case with Tofu and tempe, the bad elements are greatly reduced and what you get is a source of protein superior to most other vegetarian food sources. I think its better to eat the naturally cured and fermented soybeans than to eat the protein isolates. However, when you are on the run you dont have to avoid the isolates, but I would avoid the "concentrate". I wouldnt rely on the isolate as a primary protein source, but it shouldnt be harmful as an occasional supplement.

                          "I agree tempeh is a good choice since it's fermented. But tofu isn't fermented, it's simply a processed soy, so can you please tell me why you've included it? "

                          Some kinds of tofu are fermented actually, but you are correct in saying that most of what we get in the store is not, at least not to a significant degree.
                          • Re: Soy protein isolates

                            Fri, June 22, 2007 - 1:41 PM
                            Some people digest tofu better than others. Its more throughly cured, but most often not fermented. Tempe with seaweed is a good combination as it contains organic/chelated forms of iodine which stimulates thyroid function (if you need it). Chelated minerals are superior to the inorganic forms.

                            I would not rely on soy for your main protein source, but I wouldnt avoid it either. I would include it in your diet, but eat a diversity of nuts, beans, and vegetables.



                            • Re: Soy protein isolates

                              Sat, June 23, 2007 - 12:34 AM
                              yup its all about, diversity! before i forget... try quinoa... if you havnt already its a fantastic source of protein!!! i think its something like 40 times more protein in it than red meat, but i maybe wrong on that?
                              • Re: Soy protein isolates

                                Sat, June 23, 2007 - 12:07 PM
                                No, it does not have more protein in it than meat, or even soy. Its just a better balance of essential amino acids than you will find in other grains. It has all the ones necessary for survival in a decent ratio.

                                The body is better able use to smaller chain amino acids however. Red meat has larger amino acid chains that make up its proteins, so the body has to work harder to break it down into usable parts which means that more of it goes unused and harms the kidneys as they are excreted in excess in large chain form.

Recent topics in "Vegan Cooking"

Topic Author Replies Last Post
Vegan Cornbread Ayala 17 June 1, 2009
New Report on Organic Soy Released! Lynn 0 May 18, 2009
VegCamp at burning man VegCamp 0 April 27, 2009
A SPIRITUAL C * NSP * R* CY Pierre 0 April 16, 2009